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 Need octane with MMT ! 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:09 am
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Never ran AV gas but what does the Exhaust port look like if you remove the headers???


Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:57 pm
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:35 am
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Location: Quebec
They are not dirty. Just look normal. Not 10.1 as my dual FAST channel read.
That's why I'm concerned by the water/Methanol effect. We all know the Stoichiometric Air-Fuel Ratio of Metanol is 6.4 and 14.7 for gasoline. On 1/4 mile run, I burn appr. 2,3 liters of AV gas with 0.35 liter of water/methanol? How many point the AFR should read lower?

Yves

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AMX 69 YSI supercharger


Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:30 pm
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:35 am
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Location: Quebec
tuner wrote:
Where you been? What’s up, is everything OK?


Finally, I have something to say :)
The use of 100LL with MMT is a success. We did some dyno session, last week and make 1201HP with 19.2 psi of boost without detonation. Engine compression ratio is 9:1. Of course we use chemical intercooler and AFR stay in the low 11. Apparently, the FAST display don't show the same as his output connected to my MegaSquirt logger.
The brick coloring is not so dirty @ 2oz/5gallons. In fact we saw the coloring mainly with a camera inside the engine on piston from the spark plug hole.

Image

Here is a video from the dyno session.
http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/401amx1969/media/2014/dyno2014_zps11cf23a8.mp4.html

Again, Tuner, I would like to thank you.
Yves

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Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:23 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:37 pm
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This is excellent. Thank you for posting your information. The water will definitely clean the plugs and combustion chambers. I am curious if your water to fuel ratio is still the same as you mentioned in the post above where you said, “On 1/4 mile run, I burn appr. 2.3 liters of AV gas with 0.35 liter of water/methanol?”

Is the fuel/IC (internal coolant) ratio still the same or did you use more water on the dyno, liters internal coolant per second, per liters of fuel per second?


Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:51 am
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:35 am
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Location: Quebec
Ok, here is the fact:
On the dyno,
1- I was forced to change the W/M set-up due to the boost increased with the new supercharge. I use now 3 jets instead of 2 and spray together 33ml/sec @ 12.2volts. I did this test in the car without the alternator on. Maybe a bit more ml @ 13.8V as when I run 1/4 mile.
2- Also, I have changed the carburator bowls. I use the Quick Fuel model with 2 needle and seat adjustment per bowl, but, I didn't check how much fuel was requested per pass, at full open throttle. I know with the new bowls, I burned more gas. The A/F was coming dangerously in high 12 @ 6400 with standard Holley bowls (to lean). Now A/F is low 11 @ 6900 (much safer) with new Q/F bowls.

In conclusion, I have no way to evaluate the ratio W/M and fuel at this moment.

Sorry
Yves

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Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:23 pm
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Don't be sorry. I am sorry I didn't respond sooner to you post.

Assume a 50/50 mix of H2O/CH4O has a specific gravity ((1+.792)/2=.896) .896x33ml = 29.56 gm mass per sec.

Further assume the fuel flow for 1200 HP with .6 BSFC (unless you have the BSFC in the dyno data the .6 assumption is because of richer than NA AFR and 'internal friction' load of driving the supercharger) is 1200x.6= 720 lbs per hr. which is ((720/60)/60)=.2lbs per second = 91gm per sec.

The water flow was 29.56 gm per sec so the internal coolant flow is approximately 33% as much as the fuel flow.

This is reasonable in comparison to the WW2 very high output supercharged and sometimes nitrous assisted fighter engines, such as Rolls Merlin in the P51 Mustang, which used approximately 50% internal coolant mass flow per mass of fuel flow when in “combat emergency” maximum supercharge boost plus N2O.

Somebody check my math.


Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:23 pm
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:57 pm
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Location: Frostburg, MD
Hello All,

Old thread, but on the topic, Yves asked if we could take two bottlees, and double the rise?

Well? I'm running apx 1 ounce of Lucas' stuff to 1 gallon of 93 pump gas. The bottle is 15 ounces, says it'll treat 15 gallon, so I'm already heavy. I'm afraid to run more, unless someone says its a good thing. My plugs are reddish, but not glazed at all. I'm at 8 psi with 24 degrees and I should pull 2 more out, due to being on the edge of the fuel.

I did load my wife's oem turbo'd car up with the Lucas some time ago, probably 2 ounces per gallon of gas, maybe a little more. Yes, "some is better more is better yet" mentality. Spirited driving with boost jacked to 18 psi or so, no harm done. I posted on a thread somewhere, maybe speedtalk, in which I was supposed to check the plugs in that car for Tuner. Sorry, I never did.

Dave


401amx1969 wrote:
My first topic on the forum!
Hi Folks

It's appear, all Manufacturers, where use MMT on there octane booster, can make their own recipe with different level of MMT. Some claim, as Lucas, to raise by 30 points (3 octane level). Other, as ''NOS'', claim to raise by 60 points, but also include in there recipe a portion of Nitromethane. So, do you have a thumb rule to determine how much MMT we need to add, to bring the AVgas to the level of the C-16 or at a safe level?

Also, can we take 2 Lucas's bootles, or other to rise the double points?

Does any of you have the MSDS of Amsoil octane booster had before they remove MMT? I would like to try to find a other product with the same concentration.
Regards
Yves
tuner wrote:
Hello Yves,

Amsoil Dominator octane booster does in fact contain MMT.


Dave, you can add more booster until it reaches the point the metallic deposits foul the spark plugs but the maximum beneficial effect of octane increase will not increase beyond a certain point, in fact may diminish if too much is used. The addition of more booster has a diminishing return in that each additional gram has less effect than the previous. All the metallic additives, TEL, TML and MMT (and others, but those are the 3 commonly used) have this characteristic. The following numbers are only representative for purpose of illustrating the effect of metallic additives. 1st gram = 10% improvement, 2nd gram, 8% improvement, 3rd gram = 5% improvement, 4th gram = 2%, etc, etc.

You can tell when you get too much MMT because the plugs will look dark red, like a wet brick.


Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:18 pm
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