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 Need octane with MMT ! 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:35 am
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Location: Quebec
My first topic on the forum!
Hi Folks

It's appear, all Manufacturers, where use MMT on there octane booster, can make their own recipe with different level of MMT. Some claim, as Lucas, to raise by 30 points (3 octane level). Other, as ''NOS'', claim to raise by 60 points, but also include in there recipe a portion of Nitromethane. So, do you have a thumb rule to determine how much MMT we need to add, to bring the AVgas to the level of the C-16 or at a safe level?

Also, can we take 2 Lucas's bootles, or other to rise the double points?

Does any of you have the MSDS of Amsoil octane booster had before they remove MMT? I would like to try to find a other product with the same concentration.
Regards
Yves

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Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:24 am
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Hello Yves,

Amsoil Dominator octane booster does in fact contain MMT.

So far every time I called a manufacturer or asked a manufacturer’s rep how much MMT is in an octane booster product the reply has been “that is proprietary information” or it only confused a sales guy.

It really doesn’t matter because you can see it in the color on the sparkplugs.

Other than carbon, the colors of sparkplug deposits from fuel with metallic additives, Lead or Manganese, are oxides of the metals. Common paint pigments are metal oxides. The Lead oxides usually seen on plugs are Yellow Lead and Red Lead, usually yielding the light tan color considered desirable.

There is also a White Lead which forms when the plug is too hot and the AFR is lean but a cruel trick is it looks just like a clean plug and you can’t really see it, and worse, the White Lead becomes a conductor and causes misfiring when the plug gets (too) hot.

The color on the ceramic is a blend of these metal oxides and carbon, usually yielding the tan color considered desirable but depending on plug tip temperature and amount of oxygen available (result of AFR) and ambient light the color may be yellow to orange-tan.

The addition of MMT will change the plug color to slightly darker and a little more of a tan-orange. If you get too much it will make the plugs look red-orange like a wet brick and it will usually more uniformly cover the ceramic tip. Too much MMT definitely makes a dark orange-brown color and shiny – like a wet brick.

I have seen plugs look green and yellow, I think the green is from Phosphorus in TCP (tricresylphosphate) which is an additive used to scavenge and prevent accumulation of Lead oxides in the combustion chamber and on sparkplugs.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:26 pm
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Ok, let say, 1 cubic meter = 264 US gallons. 2mg it's a very small amount of MMT for that large quantity of gas?
That what Lucas's octane booster revel on there MSDS info. BTW, they claim to rise octane level by 30 points with 2mg. To bring 100LL at 110 octane, we have to add more than 3 time this value...So, 3 bottles?
Is my understand is right?
:ummm?:

Yves

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Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:18 pm
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This is a situation in which people marketing products have, knowingly or unknowingly, taken liberties with the language and misrepresented or obscured common understandings of words by using them in a different context than the reader expects from their normally understood use. The different dictionary definitions of words allow a manipulator or prevaricator to cause an intentional misunderstanding, and not violate ‘truth-in-advertising’ principles, by using a word in a context in which a reader expects a familiar or common definition but in which the word can also be construed as implying another meaning in a different context.

In this case, the words in question are “point” and “points”. One use expresses a point as a whole number, like an extra point in football or every score in soccer adds a single point to the scoreboard and the point is a whole number, 2 to 3, 6 to 7, etc, and another use of “point”, as used in this reference to some octane booster descriptions, is a decimal ‘point’, a tenth of a whole number, as defined by the number’s location relative to the decimal ‘point’.

The "point" in this situation is the different forms of “octane booster”, solvents and metallics. The booster products all contain a solvent or solvents (toluene, xylene, etc.) but some also contain MMT, a metallic hydrocarbon compound.

Octane can be ‘boosted’ by different means. One way is to blend a higher octane number solvent into a batch of fuel. In the case of blending solvents to raise octane, the effect is nearly linear in relation to the solvents percentages in the blend. This requires relatively large percentages of the higher octane ingredient to be effective. 50% 90 octane and 50% 100 octane = 95 octane.

An example of a quart of ‘octane booster’ which is 100% Xylene, which is 115 octane, added to 15 gallons of 100 octane.

15 gal x 4 qt = 60 qt x 100 (oct#) = 6000 + 1 qt x 115 (oct#) = 6115/61 = 100.245 octane result of blend of 60 qt 100 oct and 1 qt 115 oct.

In this case you see the octane increase of an octane booster without the metallic ingredient is only decimal points, or on the right side of the decimal point. The marketing department hasn’t exactly told an untruth, but they haven’t told the whole truth either, by using the word “points” or “octane points” in this manner.


The metallics are in a different category. By themselves, they are not capable of being used as a fuel, as Toluene or Xylene could be used. They act as a catalyst to modify the combustion process. They are hydrocarbon compounds and as such are flammable, but if used for fuel in pure form the engine could not run for very long because the metal would very quickly foul the spark plug, which is what will happen if you add too much to the fuel you use. Enough is enough, more than enough is detrimental.

The effect of metallics is not proportional or linear like the solvent blends. Very small amounts have very large effects and the first gram has more effect than the second, etc.

In the case of the metallics Tetraethyl Lead and Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl, a gram or less per gallon will raise the octane number several whole numbers, particularly with alkylate – Avgas is alkylate.

Alkylate hydrocarbons are particularly responsive to the metallic octane improvers TEL and MMT. Better yet, when MMT and TEL are combined in alkylate the effect is synergistic, the two metallics together work better than either does alone, in fact, remarkably better.

In the particular case of combining MMT with leaded alkylate, which is the description of Avgas - the major components of Avgas are alkylates - a tenth-gram of MMT with a gram of TEL in a gallon raises the octane number 6.4 units* (points, whole numbers). Avgas has 2.5 to 3 gm. TEL per gallon (US). This is why so little MMT is necessary to get the desired effect.

You will definitely see the red-orange color on the plugs when you use one ounce of MMT containing booster to five gallons (US) of Avgas. You can prove this to yourself by mixing a small batch of fuel in a ratio of two ounces to five gallons and if the concentration is as high as I am used to expecting in the MMT products I have experience with, the sparkplugs will come out a dark red-brown ‘wet brick’ color. When you see that, back off on the concentration of MMT until it is obvious the plugs will not be fouled by the metallic deposits.


* Page 322, "Internal Combustion Engines" by Edward F. Obert, ©1968 - Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 68-16128


Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:03 pm
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Tuner
As you said, some people can keep something confused by using a different language, other than the day to day we use. Definitely, this is not you case.

I have no words to express how to thank you for that clear response.

Best Regards.
Yves

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Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:34 pm
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Ok, I'm back :roll:
Do you know the life time of AVgas, if we keep it on a 30 gallons drum?
Let said, life time at 80 F and at 32 F. I have to store large quantity in drum and I'm interest to know if AVgas will lost his power in the case it is stored on a long period.
In a positive case, is an additive exist to prevent that effect?
thanks
Yves

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Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:12 pm
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Where you been? What’s up, is everything OK?


Additives are not required for Avgas storage.

In a sealed steel container, absolutely free from water or contaminants such as residue from pump gas or oil previously contained in the drum, it “should remain stable for at least one year” (Chevron Aviation Fuels Technical Review). If you are going to store it that long I would wait to mix the MMT until you use it, but I don’t think it is a big deal. I have used a 55 gal. drum that sat 9 months and there was no detectable difference between the stored fuel and new fuel in color, odor or performance.

Pump gas turns skanky smelling and starts forming gum in a month and we all know what it does to lawnmowers and such that sit over the winter.

Recently, I freshened some Mopar Tri-Power on a vintage 340 TransAm Cuda that has only ever run Avgas. The previous freshen-up was six years before and it was raced three or four times a summer and sat from September to June every year. The carbs didn’t need a part replaced, O-rings, power valve, gaskets, all good with little or no sign of use. I only put new parts because we had the carb kits and it seemed like the thing to do.


Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:04 pm
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tuner wrote:
Where you been? What’s up, is everything OK?


Yea, no time to play with the car yet.......
But, as soon I have test and tune done, I will let you know the result. :thumbl:

Yves

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:40 am
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My 2 cents is to put the drum up on a couple of 2X4's to allow some air under the drum..


Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:57 am
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After a race season, did around 100 ¼ mile pass, the AV gas is definitively better with MMT added. We can see tan deposit on valve, and lightly on piston. But the plugs, all season, was clean without orange coloring. The mix was 8 oz for 30 US gallons. The fact to have no orange color on plug, maybe confirm the request to need more MMT?

But before, I’m concern to know if the water/methanol injection can affect the reading. Maybe clean the plug and BTW explain why the plugs are without coloring. The AFR was always in the low 10……And that’s something I can’t explain. The burn ring on ceramic don't confirm a rich mix.

I still have some progress to do, but MMT is a must!

Yves

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Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:47 pm
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